Comments for Nothing to be smug about at http://www.adamsmith.org , comment 1 to 5 out of 5 comments http://www.adamsmith.org Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:11:22 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/politics/nothing-to-be-smug-about-200805161385/#comment-237 As with so much of this Government, the statistical re-calibration of definition obscures the truth in the service of political expediency. The definition of poverty in percentage terms means that if Bill Gates and Warren Buffet moved to London the number of people living in "poverty" would rise. I am grateful for the further clarification of the real poverty of the lower 40% which I had not previousy considered but would plainly want to help. The biggest obstacle to helping the poor is the widespread reluctance to seek to change cultural attitudes which would be necessary to introduce Wisconsin- type reform. If we do not grasp that nettle however we will never give back to the multi generational client /ensioners the self -esteem they lack and which manifests itself in all manner of poverty-related anti -social and self- destructive behaviors. - martin sewell Sat, 17 May 2008 13:27:31 +0100 http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/politics/nothing-to-be-smug-about-200805161385/#comment-232 Some, like the Duke of Edinburgh, would argue that there is no such thing as abject poverty in this country. The proles have their Nike trainers and processed food. Yet, the moral and physical degradation of the great swathes of those dependent on the UK welfare state is almost Third-World. The Socialists and bureaucrats cannot seem to acknowledge that generations are being lost to drugs,violence and hopelessness on our great sink estates. Of course it was Maggie's fault. So as Dr Butler observes the Treasury give the poorest a few more quid to take them out of statistical poverty. It was a bit embarrassing to see Indonesian gap year students in Glasgow doing the sort of relief work you'd normally associate with Indonesia. Will the Tories propose pulling the lowest out of the tax system, along with sweeping 'Wisconsin style' reforms? My God it might even lead to an inner city Tory MP north of the Border. Unlikely. It seems they will ignore Lord Forsyth's tax proposals. P.S. Dave you are absolutely correct. There is a veritable army that administrates welfare. This has been argued why it is electoral suicide to try and dismantle it. Unlike the lowest of the low, they vote. It does remind me of a tragi-comic scene in Rab C. Nesbit. Rab, to a jobcentre (plus) employee, "See bams like us, wee gie ye a job". - Border Reiver Fri, 16 May 2008 15:52:09 +0100 http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/politics/nothing-to-be-smug-about-200805161385/#comment-231 And don't forget the cost of the army of civil serveants who administer this redistribution and I guess the cost of those on Job Seekers Allowance would be less than their costs of salary and more particularly pensions commitmnet to the future. Who knows some of them may actually go on to get jobs that add value to GNP rather than consume it. By the way has anybody noticed the the Age Allowane (Tax threshold) is now wired out at an income of £27800 rather than £29000 as a result of the £600 increase in Personal Allowance? - Dave Fri, 16 May 2008 12:06:41 +0100 http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/politics/nothing-to-be-smug-about-200805161385/#comment-230 A tax and social security system that makes a Klein Bottle look quite a simple concept... - Steve Giess Fri, 16 May 2008 10:43:16 +0100 http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/politics/nothing-to-be-smug-about-200805161385/#comment-229 It's just a mantra, along with 'making work pay with the National Minimum Wage and Tax Credits', the problem is that they have been saying it for so long that many people believe it. On Question Time yesterday, people tried laying in to Alan Johnson (only neither they nor he actually understands the maths or economics of the whole tax/welfare thing so the debate was a bit pointless) and he just kept bleating "But we have lifted pensioners", he didn't even bother saying "...out of poverty". - Mark Wadsworth Fri, 16 May 2008 09:29:29 +0100